Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Alternative views

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Video Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Alternative views

Zimbabwe Besar - Dua teori rival?

Main article: Great Zimbabwe

It may be argued that there are two 'rival' theories for the origins of Ancient Zimbabwe Civilizations (with temples and boulders of pumice, and its vast gold mining network) - namely, the theory of "Shona", and "Semitic" theory. supports the "Shona" theory - but if we include the layman, the difference in numbers becomes much less.

For 40 years since the publication of Robert Gayre's 1972 book supporting the "Semitic" theory, almost every article on the subject has appeared in peer-reviewed journals, subscribing to the "Shona" theory.

Nevertheless, it is still unclear (at least, not for me) how exactly the "Shona" theory can be regarded as proven beyond doubt - which is what most of its adherents claim. As far as I can see, their main argument is based on oral tradition, and on the fact that Shona-style houses and artifacts are found in and around the various stone ruins.

However, there is the possibility of an alternative scenario - where the original civilization was created by people from Semitic stocks, but later conquered and overrun by Shona. Some Semitic inhabitants can also be absorbed into the Shona population, so not all Semitic skills and knowledge are lost. Thus, archaeological evidence really needs to be reexamined to see if it can still be consistent with the alternative hypothesis. --DLMcN (talk) 19:26, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Seeing this without understanding the details, it sounds like what you describe as a "rival" theory not treated by general scholarship as a "rival"; but as one accepted theories of general and alternative theories that led to controversy. So I suppose your concern is that the article allows alternative coverage? According to the policy on "suburban subjects" WP: FRINGE:

"an idea that is not widely supported by a scholarship in its field should not be given undue weight in an article about the main idea... [page] should not make it appear more prominent than... and a reliable source should be quoted that affirms the relationship marginal ideas with mainstream ideas seriously and substantially.

This is a policy that limits all of us. I would mean that some coverage can be given to ideas you describe as "possible alternative scenarios"; but can not be presented as equally worthy. This article should be clear that Gayre's work has established a mainstream academic position, and provides an alternative view as a minority opinion. That is, of course, if it proves to have enough inability to be discussed in a reliable source. Here's the policy that determines 'trusted sources'. - Zac ? ^talk! 20:03, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

See also WP: VALID. If being in the article too legitimizes the periphery theory, it can be removed from the main article. When you say "an overwhelming majority" it sounds like an omission applies here. IRWolfie- (talk) 18:34, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

New evidence recently appeared (ie, genetic analysis of Lemba) - which may now justify a new view on the topic. --DLMcN (talk) 19:48, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Maps Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Alternative views

Ramtha School of Enlightenment

Hi! I found this page while rummaging through the discussion pages for New Religious movement articles and thought that maybe this is a good place to ask for help with the project I'm working on. I work on behalf of the Ramtha Enlightenment School, which has been described as a new religious movement, to increase the entrance of schools.

This page currently has several problems, including problems with how information about school trust and teaching methods is presented. I have now finished writing new versions that discuss this, and some other issues, which I want other editors to consider.

On the discussion page you will find more information about what I recommend changing and why. You will also find links to what I write. Although I have written this on behalf of the school, I am not a private member, but due to my "conflict of interest", I will not edit the entry itself. If what I write is an improvement, I hope other editors will be able to change the entry for me.

If this discussion page is not a good place to leave this message, can someone point me to Wikiproject where I might find someone to help? So far I've left messages in Wikiproject Religion and the Wikiproject Religion subgroup/new religious movement. Calstarry (talk) 15:37, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

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New start: Ramtha School of Enlightenment

I posted on this page about six weeks ago looking for an editor to help review the new draft of the Ramtha School of Enlightenment article. Over the last few weeks the conversation has become very long and complicated so now, on the advice of some other editors, I want to try and look at the articles part by part.

I'm looking for an editor who can help me review the current section of the Research and compare it with my suggested revision that I call Research into Ramtha.

On the Ramtha discussion page I have been telling my concerns with the current section and some detailed notes explaining the changes I want to make with my revision. If you can help you can see the message on the Ramtha discussion page about it here. Calstarry (talk) 21:43, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

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I've recently deleted

some pages of Category: Pseudoscience; arguing that 'pseudosain' is the nickname of judgment; also, IMO, a very stigmatized label, so it should be used sparingly. Spanish Wikipedia says it eloquently: "There is no devier who uses the law and can be proven, and can be applied in other countries as in other countries." Rough translation: "For a page to be placed in this category, there must be a trusted source mentioning that the subject in question is pseudosain." I strongly support this policy; subjects should only be categorized as pseudoscience if more reliable sources (as I pointed out on the My users page, sources with unreliability conflicts) say they are like that. In other words, the burden of proof must be on those who claim the subject is pseudosain, not on those who claim it is not.

Some pages I deleted: Continental Drip, Steatopygia.

Okay? - Solomonfromfinland (talk) 23:34, February 12, 2015 (UTC)

No. Not okay. :: Solomonfromfinland, not so fast. You remove meta-categories for many things clear pseudoscience (such as astrology), and ones in the sub-category of Pseudoscience (like Alternative medicine). It is best to leave them as they are. You risk being seen as a destroyer. I suggest you do a quick backpedaling and undo a lot of things you do. Keep in mind that we do not care whether something is a condescending or judgmental term, even with BLP being more careful. - Brangifer (talk) 06:53, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

I left Category: Astrology as well as Astrology article itself in pseudoscience 'metacategory'. However, a number of pages in various sub categories: Pseudoscience placed in that category directly. To what extent should this be done? (Same goes for other categories; eg must be New Horizons placed directly in Category: Pluto? [Probably not, IMO].) Indeed, the title Category: Pseudoscience says, "Pages in this category should be moved to subcategories if applicable" This category may require frequent maintenance to avoid being too big. This should directly contain very few, if any, articles and should primarily contain subcategories. "

As a specific case, do you approve the removal of droplet articles Continental, Steatopygia, Meme and macrobiotic diet from Category: Pseudoscience? Other Wikipedians, any opinions on this issue?

Words to watch out for, "With regard to the term" pseudoscience ": per policy A neutral point of view, pseudoscientific view" should be clearly described as such. "According to the content guidelines, the periphery theory, the term" pseudoscience "can be used to distinguish a peripheral theory from general science, supported by a reliable source." The plausible interpretation of this passage is that subjects should only be categorized as pseudosain if (a) they are "clearly described as such" by the article; (b) such descriptions are supported by (reliable resources). (Some sources consider psychoanalysis a pseudosain, but this may be a minority view.)

A little mistake, which I will apologize for, is that you seem to say Category: Alternative medicine is a sub-category of Pseudoscience. Until now, it's not, though the Alternative Medicine article is placed in Category: Pseudoscience.-- Solomonfromfinland (talk) 08:39, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I see that Obiwan moved him some time ago. Strange. - Brangifer (talk) 15:20, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Btw, BullRangifer, did not mention me quickly as a destroyer. Cutting the number of articles directly included in certain categories, which I have done before, is not necessarily vandalism; especially when the category page asks for it. For highly controversial labels such as "pseudo-", inappropriate articles should be removed immediately. Btw, I'm not mad at you. The Wikitalk page (not mentioning Arbitration, Noticebo, and RfC cases) is full of disputes; and I almost do not consider this a dispute, not even.-- Solomonfromfinland (talk) 01:28, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Do not worry. I know You are not a destroyer. You must mean well. I just do not want you to be "seen as a destroyer" by someone who is not familiar with the situation or with you.

I just feel that in some situations you are in a hurry and also put your business in the wrong place. It is better to actually add the source, or to install the {{cn}} tag, or to request that the required ref is given when the subject is clearly scientific. Most are not BLP, so there is no need to hurry. BLP is clearly handled differently. Otherwise I understand your concerns. - Brangifer (talk) 03:21, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

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Project scope?

There is little ambiguity as to what your Wikiproject scope ends on [1]. I explain what I see as the scope that all your countries focus on a significant minority view rather than a peripheral view. If my readings are correct, I do not see where the scope for this project will be in the article, so it would be nice for the people involved in this project to provide insight into what it means when tagging an article. thanks. Kingofaces43 (talk) 16:06, June 29, 2015 (UTC)

I have answered this in Talk: Vani Hari - relevant for important advocates from a very non-mainstream scientific view, and that tags on the talk page are useful for project purposes, for example . Apparently this is not enough - David Gerard (talk) 22:18, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

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Holocaust Disclaimer

I added a "Controversial label" template to a number of related categories-the Holocaust denial. This template was deleted; deletions that I do not mind and which I do not currently want to return. I am by no means a Holocaust denomination. I agree, the Holocaust is a fact in the same sense as some other historical events. However I enjoy editing Wikipedia, and I think a "controversial" label template would be appropriate, given that the term "denialist" is listed as a controversial label.

I apologize for my potentially inappropriate editing.-- Solomonfromfinland (talk) 23:06, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

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Category rename

I created Category: Expert anti-conspiracy theorist. It is about "People who have criticized or tried to dispel the prejudice of conspiracy theories." This should be titled "Criticism of conspiracy theorists". Btw, I place it in Category: Criticism, which I change to Category: Criticism. (When I create Category: Theorists of anti-conspiracy theories, I do not know it Category: Criticism exists.) - Solomonfromfinland (talk) 23:20, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

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Alternative_theories_of_the_location_of_Great_Moravia

Need some editors to keep an eye on this article. It's new and created as part of a compromise between two users on the NPOV bulletin boards. Dr Crazy 102 (talk) 13:33, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

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RfC notifications: transhumanist politics

There is a Request for Comment on the Talk page for political transhumanist . The Transhumanist Party has just completed an American bus tour - should it be mentioned in the "History" section of the article? -Haptic-feedback (talk) 07:05, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

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Water fluoridation

Hi all! They can certainly use some eyes on water fluoridation. Please see history quickly and please drop by Talk: Water Fluor # 28 April 2016 to share your thoughts. Many, many thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:11, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

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holocaust revisionism

Will talk: holocaust revisionism fall within the scope of this project? Trying to give dad advice on what to name or how to present a conservatively designed article to highlight the basis of trusted changes published in the estimated number of deaths or camp sites. Basically to cover up a legitimate revisionism rather than an illegitimate type that often requires negationism or rejection.

People seem to think that a source needs to use the right phrase to be counted in a field and can not admit the estimate of the changed number is revisionist. --Ranze (talk) 08:47, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Electronic Abuse article

An alternative view of those claiming as targeted individuals (TI) is being described as a delusion in electronic harassment articles. I have tried to change it but failed, even though the article Washington Post Mind Games is acceptable as a reliable source. Any help will be accepted. (for some reason I can not give you a link to the article "Electronic Harassment" Wikipedia) Jed Stuart (talk) 04:22, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

The new account may not understand the scope

Icannotthinkofagoodusername (talkÃ, Ã, Â · contribs) adds project templates to people from Jerry Fallwell to Mussolini, and White Supremacy. Maybe someone from the project can check the addition and advise it? thanks. Doug Weller talk 18:08, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

And an IP, 92.28.226.240 (talk Ã, Â · ) - to KKK articles, Margaret Thatcher, atheism, Hitler, etc. Doug Weller speech 18:10, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Accounts have been blocked, and account editing and IP editing are returned. Johnuniq (talk) 00:20, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

RfC here...

RfC here SPECIFICO talk 15:29, October 20, 2016 (UTC)

Different Differences Between Alternative and Compete Views

  Eaterjolly (talk) 09:54, 2 November 2016 (UTC)   

My argument is irrelevant, because it is based on the wrong scope. The scope of this project is limited to the line of business, not entirely "views" of anything. Eaterjolly (talk) 00:26, December 27, 2016 (UTC)

Biocentric universe

There is a debate on deletion here in the Biocentric universe that involves whether the primary primary source is adequate or if the top science journal is always needed as a source. This is more than a very closed-minded alternative in the mainstream press. Many people are very anti-alternate involved and vocal. Maybe interesting. Grump International (talk) 03:49, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Clients Submission Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages

Regards WikiProject Alternative Member Views!

This is a just one time message to let you know about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 User Desire Surveys I thought You may be interested in reviewing and may even choose to:

• Fix and upgrade the popular Mr.Z-bot report page

If the above proposal is included in Top 10 by voice, it is most likely that this bot is restored so your project will again see the monthly updates of popular pages.

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Clarification in Scope: Field versus not Field

I propose clarification:

• Theology is the field, the religion is not.
• Political Science is a field, politics is not.
• Philosophy is a field, no spirituality.

dll..

It seems as though many of these articles are about minority religions, political attitudes, people with many unrelated views, etc.

I think it would be better to start deleting an article that is not good about the view itself or the main developer of a view. Individuals, organizations, and media designed to promote these ideas should not be included. 12.168.201.132 (talk) 07:02, December 10, 2016 (UTC)

I have returned you on the NWO conspiracy theorist talk page, it's still poly sci. Doug Weller talk 07:20, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

I have returned you in some articles. The way you define "fields" is strange in some of these cases; for example, this one. It's easy to say that conspiracy theorists are fields, and the list of them is just an extension of it. If the display is an alternative and a minority view, then there is a high probability it should be marked as such on the talk page. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:27, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Comment on RfC Donald Trump requested

Currently there is an RfC about the outcome of the presidential election here. Participation will be appreciated. This project is being contacted because it is listed as one of the projects on the Donald Trump talk page. thanks. SW3 5DL (talk) 17:03, January 14, 2017 (UTC)

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Blue quartz

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Just started a new wikiproek. Since the project is touching sharing a small number of pages with it, some people in this project may be interested in joining, so I thought I would post it here. WP: CHIROPRACTIC. S EMMENDINGER ( talk ) 13 : 02, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

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